AS:042 Blind Institute of Technology

Intro: 00:02

Welcome to the Accessibility Solutions Podcast, hosted by Linda Hunt, an award winning accessibility consultant, speaker, and author. With over 30 years experience in senior management rules and indeed passion for creating inclusive environments, Linda brings us unmatched expertise and credibility to our discussions. Join us as we explore the Transformative Power of accessibility and inclusion in today's world. Through captivating conversations, Linda shares her wealth of knowledge, provides practical solutions, and sheds light on the latest trends and investments in the field. Whether you're a business owner or disability advocate, or simply curious about the world of accessibility, this podcast is your go to resource. Get ready to unlock new perspectives, breakdown barriers, and embark on a journey of empowerment. Are you ready to create a more inclusive world? Let's begin! Welcome to the Accessibility Solutions Podcast.

Linda: 01:02

All right, thanks for joining me on this episode of the Accessibility Solutions podcast. Today, I am very pleased to have a guest with me, James Warnken, and James is with the Blind Institute of Technology. James has been working in the accessibility space for several years now as a consultant, teacher, speaker, and tester. James's mission is to make the online world as accessible as possible so that everyone has an equal experience. James is also a low vision user with Stargardt, which he tells me is a progressive form of vision loss. So James, welcome to the Accessibility Solutions podcast. Thanks for joining me today. We had a little discussion about James's passion for digital accessibility and the work of the Blind Institute of Technology.

So James, why don't you give us an overview of the kind of blind IT that it is that it does and I'll let you take it away from there.

James: 02:09

Yeah, absolutely. First, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and having this conversation. Accessibility starts with awareness and these conversations do exactly that in raising awareness. So excited to be here and jumping right in Blind Institute of Technology BIT

You might have heard it as everything sort of funnels back to this conversation around employment for professionals with disabilities, whether that's through our career seeker program and just helping with placement or through the BIT Academy, helping professionals with disabilities upskill and get training, globally recognized certifications like Salesforce and accessibility. There's so much that BIT does. But like I said, it all comes back to employment at the end of the day and helping to sort of bridge that gap that is that unemployment gap between professionals with disabilities and professionals without disabilities. Because there are a lot of statistics out there around the blind and visually impaired communities and unemployment. The disability community as a whole with unemployment, BIT is striving and working to sort of decrease that number overall. There's a lot of different ways that that's happening.

Linda: 03:20

Yeah. I know that a lot of the times that I speak to groups, I will point out that persons with disabilities are the most underutilized workforce that there is. And I like the fact that you specifically pointed out professionals with disabilities. A lot of persons with disabilities are highly educated and have a difficult time finding employment, whether it be the fact that they require accommodations for specific training requirements. And so I'm really pleased, you know kind of now know about Blind IT and the programs that you offer so specifically around digital accessibility. You've mentioned that it's a 14 week course. So when someone comes into blind IT world and goes through the program to get accepted into the digital Accessibility course, they do a 14 week course and then at the end, you know, they come out, they've now graduated, will say, cause it is an Institute of Technology. And so what supports are there for them to kind of them in and then finding a job, as you said, as either in a firm doing the digital accessibility work or as a tester, what kinds of employment can we picture them getting after they've gone through your program?

James: 04:46

Yeah, such a great question. And our course 1 prepares them for the IAAPC pack certification, which is becoming increasingly more, more and more. We're seeing that on job descriptions and moving into the requirements and out of the nice to halves because it is gaining a lot of traction, but getting to how do we take people from education to employment. There's a ton of different things in place. One of them is BIT. It has two registered apprenticeship programs for the blind and visually impaired. I'm pretty sure they're the only two in the United States. And so we have this apprenticeship program within the accessibility side that helps the students sort of transition in that middle ground of. One of the biggest problems with employment is getting the experience. Everyone requires one to three years of experience. Well, how do you get one year of experience when nobody will give you a chance? And so the apprenticeship program is a two year program that puts our apprentices on real projects, testing websites, testing mobile apps, testing documents, consulting with clients, writing V paths, like all of the digital accessibility stuff, getting their resume and experience in portfolio built up. And we've had students that have been in the apprenticeship program for two months and then they get hired out. We've had people that have completed the apprenticeship program and gotten hired out. We've placed quite a few of our students in really big organizations, Fortune 500s. We place people within the state government programs there. There really is a wide open pond if you will go into the accessibility space because from a digital side you can be a tester, you can be an engineer, you can remediate, you can take accessibility with you into XUI, graphic design, marketing development design. It applies everywhere. So there really is no fixed path or direct route to follow. It really ultimately comes down to the student and what their area of interest is and how do they progress and proceed. Whether they're looking for contractor or freelance work, they're looking for part time, they're looking for full time employment, they're looking for something in the QA world or something in the design world or UX, they wanna get into accessible gaming, that market is kind of endless. And what direction people want to run. My job as an instructor, as a supervisor is really to just help people figure out where in the accessibility space they want to sort of nestle into and then be there to support them. I always say my success is based on their success. And if they're getting to what their end goal is and everybody has a different end goal, then I am being successful. They wanna work for the state government and make their local communities more accessible, great. They wanna go work for a Fortune 100 company as an accessibility tester on a team of 60, great. But it's my job to help them get to that point, in some cases even figure out what that point is.

Linda: 07:50

Yeah, and that's I am you know I just it's like every field of accessibility, there's just so much that falls under that umbrella, like digital accessibility. I work a lot in the world of physical accessibility, and, you know we're in an era, thankfully that we've actually got legislation now that requires things like websites to be accessible, documents to be accessible upon demand and those kinds of things people don't realize, it's just it's not you know it's not something everybody can do. That you really do require somebody that's been trained in that scope of work to be able to meet those requirements. And I know in the work that I do under compliance, you know we quite often will bring in people that are experts in digital accessibility or document remediation or, you know whatever. Because we have a requirement in the province of Ontario to make documents accessible upon request. And so the average business is now faced with how do I do that? And so, yeah, I agree digital accessibility just covers so much of the world that we live in. More than just, you know, making sure your website's accessible.

James: 09:12

Yeah, well, last year, bat put out a short film called The Greatest Equalizer. So if you talk to anybody on the BIT team, but specifically the founder Mike Hess, he will tell you that technology is the great equalizer for people with disabilities. Whether it's employment, it's in general engagement, independence, whatever that conversation is. Our smartphones, our tablets, our computers, our assistive technology, all of that stuff makes things that were either extremely difficult or in some cases, impossible, possible. And so we always talk about technology as this great equalizer to create opportunities to open doors that were previously not open and to sort of knock down a lot of the barriers that have existed for so long. Whether it's in education, it's in employment, it's in communication, it's you name it, the digital world just grows and changes so fast. With things like AI coming out and getting a lot of traction over the last year. There are companies out there that are leveraging that to take historically inaccessible websites and online shopping experiences and make them fully accessible through the use of AI. Like there's just so much happening that I don't think people are in tune with because they're so used to technology changing so fast. We get a new iPhone every year, we get a new update for Windows every couple of months like that. That technology is changing rapidly, but so is the assistive technology that is making that possible for somebody like myself who's visually impaired or somebody who's totally blind or somebody with limited use of their hands. Like the assistive technology is updating just as fast. We're getting AI and accessibility built into sunglasses now with the Meta Ray Ban technology, like every device comes with a screen reader. Assistive technology is right there in that race too.

Linda: 11:06

Yeah, and so it should be. It's a very good demonstration of what, you know what I say is things should just there should be in a perfect world, there would be no barriers and everybody would have access to everything. You know I live in a world where it's primarily the physical barrier that prevents me from sometimes entering, whether it's enjoying a restaurant or a store that I'd like to go into, but I can't because it has steps to get into it. And that's, you know, sometimes those barriers are harder for people to recognize . You know they, they need to remedy those barriers because as I say, 28% of the population identifies as having a disability that is either mobility, vision, or hearing related. And, you know that 28% of the population has a wallet and that wallet, you know whether you're accessible, whether it's your website, your online shopping experience, or the fact that I can or can't get in your door means that 28% of the population is not spending their money with you or your business if you are not accessible. And I think that's, you know, for a lot of the businesses that I talk to, it's that bottom line number that's a lot of people, 28% of the population. If you're not accessible, either physically accessible or in the world that you work in digitally accessible, then that means you're really only open to 72% of the population that may or may not use your services. And I, you know I really do and I want to thank you for the work that you're doing and the advocacy as well that you're doing. We had a little discussion beforehand that James and I intersect somewhat with the RightHear program, which my listeners will know that Accessibility Solutions represents RightHear in Canada, which is an audible wayfinding system. And James has also been involved with RightHear and their technology.

James: 13:11

It takes a team, we can't know if one person can do it on their own. So all of us working together, BIT myself, individually, you guys, RightHear, all of us collaborating and working together, that's what it takes. And there's no one stop solution. There's no easy answer to the accessibility space. And so and sort of just touching back on like the digital versus the physical world, there's a lot of intersection happening there as well that I think people tend to sort of overlook or not necessarily think about where the only way we get directions now is with our mobile phones or we find out the hours of operation online before we go there, we're looking at the menus online. There's kiosks in fast food chains. Now. You don't even need to talk to a person to order food. Like technology is making its way into those physical spaces just as much as anything else is. And so like there's a ton of intersection with apps like RightHear helping people orient and Wayfind and know where they are and what's around them within a storefront to make it physically accessible, but using technology to do so. So this world is just huge. It's massive. And to me, the most exciting part is that there's really no end to it. There's always gonna be ways to improve and optimize experience, whether it's for professionals with a disability, a customer with a disability, a mom who has a child in their hand and can only use one hand, somebody who's in a cast for the next six weeks because they broke their arm. Like there's so much application to it. We're living it. It's not something that's been done for us where it's not something that is a set procedure or way of doing it. We're figuring it out every single day, whether that's 2020 peak of the global pandemic and what people with disabilities have been using for years to work from home becoming everybody's way of life overnight, or it's this low and subtle implementation and improvements that are happening across architecture, across digital landscapes with apps and websites and integrating access, accessibility and assistive technology into the device itself, taking a little bit of the responsibility off of the developer of that website. There's just so much to the conversation and it's just fascinating to me.

Linda: 15:38

I know. And I liked how you said whether it was somebody with a temporary disability. So my son in law three weeks ago broke his foot playing volleyball and is in a cast. And they live in a townhouse that from the minute you walk in the door the first thing you've got to do is go up three stairs to even get to their living room. It's one of those townhouses where it's like three levels and there's, yeah, their steps. And so here's my son in law who, you know is all 27 years old, recognizing that how much accessibility is important even for someone like him who's only gonna be in this aircast for six to eight weeks but is, you know has had to go out and rent a knee scooter because he needs can't put any weight on his foot. And so we talk about the importance of access for everyone everywhere, but you know that disabilities are not always permanent and it sometimes takes something like that. And he'll be the first one to say that what an eye opening experience having a temporary disability is because, you know they, you know people they don't know what they don't know. And this is someone that, you know for the past eight years has, you know been in my what I call sphere of influence. So he knows that when we go out to a restaurant, it has to be, we have to make sure that I can get in and that we get seated at a table or whatever. So he's not immune to, you know, the requirements of accessibility. But all of a sudden he's pushed into realizing that accessibility is now something he needs because he's just, like I said, he's a 27 year old kid that broke his foot and is now in a cast. And, you know for that, not that I wish that he broke his foot, but I'm actually glad that time that he's now not the only one in the family that can really attest to the value of accessibility and the necessity of it from a standpoint of someone that's got either a permanent disability or just like a temporary disability.

James: 17:42

Yeah, they say they will all experience disability at some point in our life, whether it's six to eight weeks in an aircaster. It's something that is due to an accident or injury or something we're born with. Well, we'll all experience different degrees and have disabilities throughout our life. Yes, at a conference about a month ago, and one of the key notes said that if you're blessed enough to age, welcome to my world. And I love that quote because statistically speaking, the older we get, the more likely disabilities are to become present in our worlds. And whether we identify as a person with a disability or not doesn't really change the fact that it is. And so just putting it into that kind of perspective, I think everyone that was in that room walked away thinking about disabilities differently. Not a matter of if it's a matter of when and when I'm in that scenario or when I'm in that setting. Will the environment around me, the digital devices and smartphones and tablets and computers, still be usable and accessible for me? I think that's a great perspective to put people that are working in, in the tech field or working in the architecture or the design fields so that it's not an if question. It's a, what do we encounter this?

Linda: 19:00

Yes, cause we talk about that. I certainly talk quite often about the fact that over the age of 65, which are the baby boomers, that the incidence of disability is as high as 40%, yep, over the age of 65, and, you know these are the biggest called the silver tsunami as the population ages and we've got more people turning 65 every, every day. And so you're right, we're all I I'd say the same thing. We're all one accident, illness, diagnosis away from, from being potentially a person with a disability.

James: 19:36

I lived a normal childhood for 9 years before they told me I was losing my vision. And even after that, I still lived a pretty normal childhood. I just have to do things differently with large print and Braille and learning how to navigate with a cane and all of that kind of fun stuff. It just adds on top of it for me at least, and it was adaptive with progressive vision loss. It's constant. What worked today didn't work yesterday, and what worked 5 years ago no longer works for me. The world that I live in exists and is always changing. And the magnification slowly gets bigger until I eventually get to a point where I can't make it any bigger and then I need to turn a screen reader on and I'll switch from one assistive technology to another. And so even within our world of disability and accessibility and assistive technology is still not a simple solution for us. And so if we're putting in all of this time and energy and money because the system, technology is not cheap, we're putting in all of this time and energy and money to learn and be able to even have the opportunity to access what we're trying to access should be accessible. It shouldn't be we, we build half the bridge and the other half isn't there for us.

Linda: 20:50

Yeah, exactly. And that and that word adopting has been my, it's been my mantra for probably the last 20 years. As somebody with a chronic illness where disability progression started out with a limp and one cane and is now gone, and that word adopting is, you know that's what I'm the same as you. So you've been adapting since you were nine. I've been adapting for probably the last 20 years, you know a limp and the limp and one cane to now spending all of my time and as a power wheelchair user. So, and that's, you're right, I'll tell you, yeah, it's not that I'm sitting in a wheelchair that costs more than my last car. But, yeah it's not and people don't realize how stable it is. Yeah, it's very expensive to live with a disability and to be able to get the assistance of devices that you require.

James: 21:43

Yeah. And then yet, you still encounter a building that has stairs in front of it. And I still encounter a website that's using gray text on a white background that I can't read no matter how big.It makes a little discouraging, but like the technology, like I said, is moving so fast that in the digital landscape, there's a lot of work around that maybe don't exist in the physical world. But nonetheless, like I think a lot of people overlook how much effort and resources go into getting that assist of technology. They even have that opportunity in the first place and then being told, no, you can't engage.

Linda: 22:20

Well, I just wanna thank you for the work that you're doing and the advocacy and everything around digital accessibility. Because you're right, first of all, it's awareness, because as I say, people don't know what they don't know. And then, you know, making sure that people, especially businesses, recognize the importance of accessibility to their business bottom line, so that there are no people with disabilities don't encounter barriers, whether they're digital or physical. And so we're on the same page in terms of advocating, spreading awareness, and just making sure the world knows that we should be living in a world without barriers of any kind for any person with a disability.

James 23.22

Just as much thanks goes back to you and, and the work you do, and doing these interviews to raise that awareness and push these conversations to new audiences to work when collaborating with people like RightHear, Don and Darren doing phenomenal work in their vertical of accessibility. Like just as much thanks goes to all of you as well, not just to me and the work that me and my team and the BIT are doing. Like it takes a village. It takes a team. Nobody can do it by themselves. We're still all figuring this out together. These. We celebrated 34 years of the ADA this year and we made a lot of progress, but there's still a lot more to do.

And yeah, so it takes everybody sort of anchoring into what catches their interest and drives their passions and running full steam of head and not letting those barriers slow you down or, or hold you back or stop you in your tracks.

Linda: 24:01

Well, it's funny that you say that night, I do, I will tell you from the physical accessibility standpoint. When I travel to the US, I can tell that you've had the ADA. The American Disabilities Act has been around for a lot longer than any of the accessibility legislation that we have in Canada. But in the province of Ontario, I was one of the people that was celebrating in June of 2005 when we introduced the Accessibility Frontiering to Disabilities Act. And the goal was that the province would be accessible by 2025, which is now less than two months away, and still have so far to go. And so 20 years ago you would have thought that we had 20 years to make the province fully accessible and that should have been, you know, should have been an easy feat to achieve but still got, oh, so far to go in the world of accessibility.

James: 24:58

isn't it all of Canada, The Accessible Canada Act? Isn't that 2040?

Linda: 25:02

Well, yeah, the Accessible Canada Act didn't actually come out until 2019. So it was actually 14 years after the Ontario legislation and the Accessible Canada Act is primarily for federally regulated industries. And so we've got and then we've got kind of a mismatch of provincial regulations across the different provinces in Canada. As I said, when I go to the States, I, as a person with a physical disability, I can see the fact that you're 34 years in and, and we're behind by, you know a couple of decades because I really do appreciate the work that's been done in the US on the American Disabilities Act since, since it came out in 1990. But anyway, so just as we wrap up any kind of last words, James, to leave our listeners with.

James: 25:55

I'd say it's all about the conversation. If you can get the conversation started, most people, it's not that they don't care, it's that they're not aware. So starting these conversations, doing these interviews, whatever you can do to bring accessibility up, that's what's gonna open up those doors and those opportunities and drive that change to remove and eliminate those barriers so that everybody can have the same opportunities and share that equal experience.

Linda: 26:20

I love that phrase and writing that down, it's not that they don't care, they're not aware.

I might borrow that quote from you. Okay.

James: 26:29

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate the conversation. There's a lot of great sort of tidbits there and hopefully this was helpful and valuable to the listener and happy to have these conversations anytime, anywhere.

Linda: 26:43

Okay, well, for our listeners to wrap up there, James's information and the information on the Blind Institute of Technology is available in the show notes if you'd like to explore more about James and the work that he's doing. And as always, thank you for tuning into this episode of the Accessibility Solutions podcast, and until next time, cheers.

Outro: 27:07

Thank you for joining us on the Accessibility Solutions podcast hosted by Linda Hunt.

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